Alvarez Banjo Serial Numbers
| ARCHIVED TOPIC: Alvarez history |
The finish of your guitar is the first thing you notice, so it needs care and attention in the production process. The skilled team at the Alvarez factory use a variety of different sanding processes during the 2-week paint job including manual hand sanding techniques after every coat to ensure there are no inter-coat scratches and blemishes. A seven-digit serial number beginning with six, for example, indicates 1996; a seven-digit number beginning with seven denotes 1997; an eight-digit number beginning with 98 denotes 1998, etc. A “KC” prefix was introduced on Korean-made instruments in 1997, designating instrument made in Korea at the Cort factory. Locate the serial number on your Alvarez banjo. This is found on the inside of the body, opposite from the neck and tuning pegs. Turn the banjo over and on the rim or just below the neck, you will find the serial number either stamped or on a clearly marked sticker. The serial number will be between three and four numbers.
Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/148530
JedNeedsCoffee - Posted - 05/21/2009: 19:21:39
Serial numbers are addressed elsewhere on the web site but can be found also on Gibson’s website and George Gruhn & Walter Carter’s book: Gruhn’s Guide to Vintage Guitars. Factory numbers (when the exist) appear in pencil inside on the block where the neck meets the body.
I've never owned an Alvarez nor do I know anything about the company but I have always admired the dark stain and inlay patterns that most of them have. I've been casually keeping an eye out for Alvarez 'jo's (the mid to upper models.......The Minstrel for instance) for awhile now on Ebay and the BHO classifieds (seeing them go anywhere from $300 to $500 in VGC. I have now seen a couple of different references made about how the ones built prior to '73 are 'better' than the ones built after. (If this is the case, I am assuming it would be because the company changed hands at that time, or a different company bought the Alvarez name). Does anyone know the story on this? I have noticed that the ones manufactured after the mid to late 70's generally have a different inlay pattern and peghead design (which is not necessarily unusual.....all manufacturers' designs evolve over time). So I guess, to get to the point, my question is if there is a notable difference in overall quality between an Alvarez built before and after such-and-such a year (and therefore, theoretically, holding more 'investment' value)?
'This is the best of all possible worlds' - Leibniz 1710
'If this is the best of all possible worlds, I'd hate to see what
the others look like' - Voltaire (paraphrased) 1759
beegee - Posted - 05/21/2009: 19:44:51
Scott Zimmerman would be the one to ask. It has to do with which Japanese factory made which models and which were made in Korea or elsewhere under contract and which were made in Korea or elsewhere by another company for the US importer.
As far as investment value, they're not in that category. You buy these as players and hot-rod-able banjos. That they hold their value is probably all you can hope for, especially in light of the high-quality imports like the RK and Gold Star (and to a lesser degree, IMO) the Morgan Monroe, Gold Tone, etc. I think they fit a niche for a decent banjo in a moderate price range,...say $500 for a used Alvarez vs $500 for a new Deering Goodtime.
The current Alvarez banjo(it seems they are down to one model, the B-1)seems to be a little better than the offerings of the past few years, but it appears to share components of similar origin to most other non- RK or Gold Star Asian banjos.
__________________________
'It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing.' -Seneca
Dan Pennington - Posted - 05/22/2009: 05:15:05
There's info on Alvarez here;
http://hawthorne.fastie.net/asianbanjos/index.htm
Dan in Minneapolis
I cut it three times and it's still too short.
desert rose - Posted - 05/22/2009: 07:31:02
Jed
Somebody may have got their years wrong, by about twenty
Before 73 there was no such thing as a Japanese banjo.
Alvarez, Aria Iida Goldstar et al were products of the mid to late seventys until the early ninetys. These were the golden years of Japanese bluegrass instruments, Fujigens Bluebell and Ibanez, Moridaira and Fender, Tokai and Goldstar etc.
All this came to a dead stop by 93 when the last factories making bluegrass instruments Kasuga and Iida folded and closed their doors, everybody else had already stopped
After this all these makers went to Korea and a few to Taiwan where ALL brands took a big hit in quality and performance
Alvarez had no factory of their own they were oem sourced. Either Kasuga or Iida likely. All their parts were the same as all the other Japanese banjos of the time.
If any of these brands survive today they are Chinese made thru the broker network handling dozens of brands cloned on the same low to mid level instruments with the companys name the only exclusive thing on them
As Bob said Goldstar and RK the LONE makers in China that have risen GREATLY above all the rest, by doing it themselves and owning their own facilities, none of the others have done this
Scott
Desert Rose Musical Instruments
www.desertrosebanjo.com
JedNeedsCoffee - Posted - 05/22/2009: 08:51:13
Hey guys, thanks for the great info!!! This will help me sift through all the B.S. of some of the Ebay sellers.
'This is the best of all possible worlds' - Leibniz 1710
'If this is the best of all possible worlds, I'd hate to see what
the others look like' - Voltaire (paraphrased) 1759
yairi_luvr - Posted - 05/25/2009: 12:24:16
Before 73 there was no such thing as a Japanese banjo.
Alvarez, Aria Iida Goldstar et al were products of the mid to late seventys until the early ninetys. These were the golden years of Japanese bluegrass instruments, Fujigens Bluebell and Ibanez, Moridaira and Fender, Tokai and Goldstar etc.
Scott
Desert Rose Musical Instruments
www.desertrosebanjo.com
I don't wish to be a pain, but I happen to know that Alvarez made Banjo's prior to 1973, I have a 1970 Alvarez catalog that lists several Alvarez Banjo's!
yl
http://yairiguitars.spaces.live.com/
New Yahoo Group for members that wish to find info on old Alvarez, Alvarez Yairi, K. Yairi and S. Yairi models (Banjo's too!)
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/grou...zYairi_plus/
Edited by - yairi_luvr on 06/05/2009 20:06:09
desert rose - Posted - 05/25/2009: 17:31:57
Alvarez Banjo Model Numbers
I did not mean for the comment to be taken as a CARVED IN STONE subject.
Others as well made some banjos BUT the Asian banjo world was in what you could call its infantile stages at that point.
I bought my first mandolin, an Ibanez in 1974/5 just when quality became the serious focdus of all these makers, Bluebell and Ibanez banjos were in existance but the export PUSH was just gaining steam
I think here in Japan most consider the 'Golden Years' beginning about 1975 for their era and the export in full swing starting then. Those in the 73 and even before are like the 'seed planting time' for the Japanese makers attempting to offer something the American market would buy, buying instruments and getting their chops down in copying them
Nothing happens over night , black and white of course
Scott
Desert Rose Musical Instruments
www.desertrosebanjo.com
mikehalloran - Posted - 05/25/2009: 18:37:51
>Before 73 there was no such thing as a Japanese banjo.<
I think that is true enough if talking about a decent masterclone. I certainly don't remember seeing any before then.
There is a picture of John and Yoko during the 1969 Montreal Bed-In where John Lennon is playing an Alvarez banjo. I would think that this is the only collectable Alvarez banjo in existence - if one has provenance. I remember someone trying to sell one of these on eBay as the same instrument with no proof except the bed-in picture for $12,000. Two people I know with identical banjos called me when we saw the listing joking that they, too, had $12K banjos - yea right. This banjo has an odd headstock and could be bought with many labels or none depending on the importer the MOTS inlay was identical on all versions. Maybe someone knows this picture and could post it.
The green sparkle Made In Japan Kent plectrum that I bought used in 1970 tells me that some others were made back then. I also got a USA made Kay that I still have. There were other Japanese banjos available at the time but they were universally horrible.
I am not sure when Kent switched from Swedish to Japanese made but it was sometime in the late '60s.
Mike Halloran
Edited by - mikehalloran on 05/25/2009 18:48:57
beegee - Posted - 05/25/2009: 19:02:31
I bought my first Japanese Masterclone, a Kasuga Ventura in late 72 or early 73 and they were just on the market at the time. Anything before then was definitely not in the same category as far as what was being imported into the USA.
__________________________
'It is better, of course, to know useless things than to know nothing.' -Seneca
steve davis - Posted - 06/05/2009: 20:19:59
I got an Aria around 70-71.
Pool
kirbonite - Posted - 06/27/2009: 15:52:44
I'm saving up to buy one of the newer models even though already have a much nicer instrument. I don't know if the tone ring or flange is of any quality but the newer instrments I've played like the B1 fit my hands perfectly and play great. I hate it because they are not american instruments but the tailpiece looks really nice and they have a thicker neck which I really like.
also they're much cheaper.
K.
saltcreek - Posted - 06/28/2009: 08:54:03
/ I have a older Silver Belle from the seventies that is a pretty high quality banjo for the time, much nicer than the Alverez banjos made today in my opinion.
Tony
Edited by - saltcreek on 06/28/2009 08:57:27
yairi_luvr - Posted - 06/28/2009: 09:28:32
quote:Originally posted by saltcreek
/ I have a older Silver Belle from the seventies that is a pretty high quality banjo for the time, much nicer than the Alverez banjos made today in my opinion.
Tony
Would that be the 4293 Silver Belle with hearts and flowers inlays on fingerboard? If so, first came out in 1978... very nice!
yl
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/grou...zYairi_plus/
Edited by - yairi_luvr on 06/30/2009 08:16:07
goldtopia - Posted - 06/28/2009: 09:45:06
I had an Alvarez once but did not see it as anything special. Its an average Asian banjo. Played well, I doubt if I would get another one.
Bill.O
www.bluegrassminstrels.co.uk
RacingStude - Posted - 06/30/2009: 08:07:15
quote:Originally posted by desert rose
I did not mean for the comment to be taken as a CARVED IN STONE subject.
Others as well made some banjos BUT the Asian banjo world was in what you could call its infantile stages at that point.
I bought my first mandolin, an Ibanez in 1974/5 just when quality became the serious focdus of all these makers, Bluebell and Ibanez banjos were in existance but the export PUSH was just gaining steam
I think here in Japan most consider the 'Golden Years' beginning about 1975 for their era and the export in full swing starting then. Those in the 73 and even before are like the 'seed planting time' for the Japanese makers attempting to offer something the American market would buy, buying instruments and getting their chops down in copying them
Nothing happens over night , black and white of course
Scott
But you DID say it like it was CARVED IN STONE! You said, 'Somebody may have got their years wrong, by about twenty. Before 73 there was no such thing as a Japanese banjo.
Alvarez, Aria Iida Goldstar et al were products of the mid to late seventys until the early ninetys....'
Anybody can buy a NEW Alvarez! You're wrong again! You've been wrong all along when you continue to unceasingly put down any Asian banjo that's not an RK or Goldstar. No doubt, RK and Goldstar are pretty good instruments. But also no doubt, there's a number of Asian made banjos that are easily comparable and an even better deal. I don't need to have a Japanese address to know that, I have eyes and ears too.
I couldn't care less about why you have such a vested interest in hustling RK and Goldstar banjos, I'm just sick & tired of totally biased 'expert' opinions....
Sonny
Fast cars, Ford diesels, food, women or pickin' --> ALL good!
Alvarez Banjo Models
yairi_luvr - Posted - 06/30/2009: 08:27:14
You just posted what I was thinking when I first saw the response~ but, I didn't want to start anything here so I let it slide. Both my early (pre 74) Alvarez banjo's are wonderful, and they weren't even the top of the line models.
thnx
yl
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/grou...zYairi_plus/
quote:Originally posted by RacingStudeBut you DID say it like it was CARVED IN STONE! You said, 'Somebody may have got their years wrong, by about twenty. Before 73 there was no such thing as a Japanese banjo.
Alvarez, Aria Iida Goldstar et al were products of the mid to late seventys until the early ninetys....'
Anybody can buy a NEW Alvarez! You're wrong again! You've been wrong all along when you continue to unceasingly put down any Asian banjo that's not an RK or Goldstar. No doubt, RK and Goldstar are pretty good instruments. But also no doubt, there's a number of Asian made banjos that are easily comparable and an even better deal. I don't need to have a Japanese address to know that, I have eyes and ears too.
I couldn't care less about why you have such a vested interest in hustling RK and Goldstar banjos, I'm just sick & tired of totally biased 'expert' opinions....
Sonny
Fast cars, Ford diesels, food, women or pickin' --> ALL good!
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/grou...zYairi_plus/
desert rose - Posted - 06/30/2009: 09:15:34
Sonny who ever you are, you have a solid track record of lashing out at anyone who trys to inject anything you feel threatening that is not glowing about your beloved banjo, Ive seen it repeatedly. GET OVER IT. Why personalize a stupid banjo, nobody is attacking you
I have NO vested interest in Goldstar or RK, I have done consulting work for MOST Asian brands, Ive got friends and business connections working for ALL the Asian brands and factories.
I have the opinions I have because IVE DONE THE WORK, I know the inside workings of the factories and the business ideas of the brands. I know what they care about and what they dont care about
If that challenges your fan based ideals, Im sorry but get over it
I cant wont change my thoughts based on doing the work just to help you feel good, NOT MY JOB
Scott
Desert Rose Musical Instruments
www.desertrosebanjo.com
majikgator - Posted - 06/30/2009: 09:31:29
gee whiz, i don't know much about art but i know what i like, i think Goldtone makes some very nice banjos, both the previous Korean and the newer Chinese, the Alvarez Silver Princess models of the early '70's; openback and bluegrass both, were excellent banjos (not the best fret work in the world tho) and sure pumped out some volume, i have found out one thing about banjos a good player can make any of them sound great, sadly the opposite is also true
jk
Edited by - majikgator on 06/30/2009 09:33:02
desert rose - Posted - 06/30/2009: 09:42:45
Jim
Very wise observations
Scott
Desert Rose Musical Instruments
www.desertrosebanjo.com
Poppy - Posted - 07/01/2009: 07:52:27
ok, keep it civil or else this topic will simply go away,for starters. you have a different opinion, go ahead and state it BUT in a nice way.If you have a question about this...read the rules you agreed to when you joined here.
'What kind of man would live in a world where there is no daring? I don't believe in taking foolish chances, but nothing can be accomplished without taking any chance at all.' -- Charles Lindberg
saltcreek - Posted - 07/01/2009: 13:20:50
It is a 4293 Hearts and Flowers, Thanks.
Tony
saltcreek - Posted - 07/01/2009: 13:22:24
Scott, thanks for your knowledge on these banjos I appreciate it.
Tony
kirbonite - Posted - 07/01/2009: 19:10:13
Guess I'll chime in again,
It's silly to get opinionated on here because if we met each other in person, we would most likely have a nice conversation. If you are a collector, that's one thing, but if you are looking for a banjo that you like, that's another. I just like the size of the neck on the alvarez. To me, that makes them fun to play. I have larger hands than most people so If you're a big guy, maybe you would like an Alvarez. Each person and player is different.. You just have to find out what works for you.
Stelling's have a nice neck feel as well but I haven't been impressed with the factory setup simply because I like a nice low action. I've played ones that have been reset and they're awesome but If you are on a budget, Alvarez might be an affordable investment. On the other hand. If you have smaller hands, they may not suit you at all.. Just my thoughts.
I've always found Alvarez's fun to play., that's all I'm saying.. I've never owned one so maybe it'd fall apart in a week and I'd change my opinion.
who knows?
K.
stanger - Posted - 07/02/2009: 01:46:47
The first good Japanese banjo I played was in 1971. It was either a Ventura or an Alvarez- can't remember which.
The 2-year difference between Scott's estimate and my personal experience doesn't amount to anything- the Japanese banjo makers were obviously doing a lot of product development before 1971, as factory production of banjos doesn't spring up overnight, and the Japanese makers started from the ground up, just as any industry does.
It took all the good Japanese makers a few years to really get up to speed as to what the world market really wanted. The world generally regarded American banjos as the best, and there was a singular confluence at that time- the best of the old American made banjos weren't as good as the once were, and the Japanese were just reaching the place where their industry had finally recovered from World War II. Their factories were new, the difference between the Yen and the Dollar allowed their banjos to be sold at low prices in the U.S., and Japan had a generation of young workers who were eager to produce high quality products.
It's important to remember too that the banjo wasn't nearly as popular in 1969 as it had been just a few years earlier. The movie Deliverance and the popularity of The Eagles changed all that and fueled another banjo boom in 1972, and all the banjo makers everywhere profited from it.
The Alvarez banjos improved substantially by the mid to late 70's, as Scott mentioned, and the banjo line they offered by then was pretty unique for them- their banjos were the only ones to offer a Tubaphone tone ring, and many of them were much different than the more typical Gibson clones of the time. The Washburns of that era were also singular, as they offered a revised version of the Gibson ball bearing tone ring.
The innovation and return to high quality wasn't just limited to Japan by any means. The 70's was when Stelling, Ome, and many small makers first came on the scene, the Gibson banjos upticked in quality, and Vega was sold to Martin, which also resulted in better quality. Fender and Ode also made good banjos, and when Fender ceased U.S. production, they imported good banjos. The scene went from a real dearth of good banjos to a very wide choice of high quality from all over the world in just a few years.
regards,
Stanger
The pen is mightier than the pigs.
desert rose - Posted - 07/02/2009: 02:59:47
Hey Mike
Right on the money.
Its nice having some other oldtimer around to remember these things
One thing I will add
Exactly as Mike related the rise of the Japanese makers back in the seventys, EXACTLY the same thing is happening in China as we speak, and for the same reasons
And just as the Japanese entry into the market three decades rewrote the instrument industry in a good way, the Chinese will add their chapter as well and the BIG winner as in the seventys will be the US again. Both US business and musicians
Scott
Desert Rose Musical Instruments
www.desertrosebanjo.com
Drivel - Posted - 07/02/2009: 11:05:54
yairi,
There is a Alvarez Montana Five Star on eBay right now, looks like the resonator in Your picture.
Dots in X paturn on the fingerboard.
It's in the VINTAGE pre-1980 section.
http://www.petspawnsandimports.com/..._Banjo_6.jpg
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...hlink:top:en
Bill
I thought there were rocks in my path, but each was a stepping-stone.
1+1+1+ Infinity =1
Alvarez Guitar Serial Numbers
xplainer - Posted - 07/02/2009: 11:58:36
I currently have an Alvarez. From the catalog, it appears to be a 4285. The inlay is the same. But the resonator is like the Silver Belle. No serial number or identification other than 'Made in Japan'.
Here is the link to the catalog page:
http://webpages.charter.net/tlsmee/...z_Banjos.pdf
-Jimmy
yairi_luvr - Posted - 07/02/2009: 12:06:35
Well said Mike!
yl
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/grou...zYairi_plus/
Edited by - yairi_luvr on 07/02/2009 12:20:36
yairi_luvr - Posted - 07/02/2009: 12:19:26
quote:Originally posted by xplainer
I currently have an Alvarez. From the catalog, it appears to be a 4285. The inlay is the same. But the resonator is like the Silver Belle. No serial number or identification other than 'Made in Japan'.
Here is the link to the catalog page:
http://webpages.charter.net/tlsmee/...z_Banjos.pdf
-Jimmy
Do you have any photo's? The 4285 was the Bluegrass Special, and the older 1970's had no inlays on the resonator (Mahogany). Mid 70's it had MSRP of $259.
yl
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/grou...zYairi_plus/
jamie_t123 - Posted - 07/20/2009: 18:18:22
I just bought a Bluegrass Special. It's a pretty nice 'jo...serial number leads me think that maybe it is a 1984...it's pretty close to the pictures of the 1982, but with different tuning pegs. You know, I really like it...looks like it sat under a bed for most of it's life. Plays nice, I love the neck, quality seems to be top notch..and I like the finish...may be nitro?? I've had/have other imports...ie: GT/RK etc...and the quality of the Alvarez is certainly right up there..
Never get between a Woman and her Banjo!
yairi_luvr - Posted - 07/20/2009: 18:32:02
quote:Originally posted by jamie_t123
I just bought a Bluegrass Special. It's a pretty nice 'jo...serial number leads me think that maybe it is a 1984...it's pretty close to the pictures of the 1982, but with different tuning pegs. You know, I really like it...looks like it sat under a bed for most of it's life. Plays nice, I love the neck, quality seems to be top notch..and I like the finish...may be nitro?? I've had/have other imports...ie: GT/RK etc...and the quality of the Alvarez is certainly right up there..
Never get between a Woman and her Banjo!
If you have photo's of the banjo, I can probably narrow down what year it was made~
You can e-mail them to yairi_luvr@comcast.net if you wish.
Regards,
yl
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/grou...zYairi_plus/
hawksbill - Posted - 07/20/2009: 18:40:11
I've owned two Silver Belles, and a Denver Belle, all excellent jos. A late 70' Brazos that was a hoss, and a few early Gold tones that were comperable to many well made U.S. banjos during the 70's, early 80's. I just sold an 80's Alveraz White Eagle 40 hole archtop, that really played well, and had nice appointments all around, for $1K. They will never compare to the high--quality early banjos that we all set the benchmark to, but they were threre to fill a gap, and they were affordable, and most of us probably started out on one.
HAWKSBILL Nothing really good, is easy.
jamie_t123 - Posted - 07/20/2009: 18:51:05
Thanks YL....I'll be back in town later this week and will take some shots...thanks!!
Never get between a Woman and her Banjo!
yairi_luvr - Posted - 07/20/2009: 19:01:20
quote:Originally posted by jamie_t123
Thanks YL....I'll be back in town later this week and will take some shots...thanks!!
Never get between a Woman and her Banjo!
No problem, glad to help! ;o)
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/grou...zYairi_plus/
jantcho - Posted - 07/23/2009: 20:43:18
Hi Y'all
I have an Alvarez 4285 Bluegrass banjo.
It sounds great; crisp and clear - this is a loud instrument.
I'll post some pictures of it too.
I really enjoy playing it, although I think I'm ready to trade up.
I have it posted for $550. Is this a reasonable price?
yairi_luvr - Posted - 07/23/2009: 23:33:03
quote:Originally posted by jantcho
Hi Y'all
I have an Alvarez 4285 Bluegrass banjo.
It sounds great; crisp and clear - this is a loud instrument.
I'll post some pictures of it too.
I really enjoy playing it, although I think I'm ready to trade up.
I have it posted for $550. Is this a reasonable price?
The 4285 Bluegrass Special was basically the low end of the Alvarez Banjo line. Info from 74 catalog:
4285 Bluegrass Special MSRP $259
5 string with celluloid bound mahogany resonator. Bell brass tonering, rosewood fb, chrome heads.
yl
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/grou...zYairi_plus/